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Thread: Loud/loudly?

  1. #1
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    Default Loud/loudly?

    Hello,
    As long as the word (loud) can be an adverb and we already have an adverb (loudly) which one should we use? is there any difference?
    for example which one should I use:
    -He spoke loud/loudly.
    -Could you speak (louder/more loudly) please?

    Can we say that both are correct?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Student33
    Hello,
    As long as the word (loud) can be an adverb and we already have an adverb (loudly) which one should we use? is there any difference?
    for example which one should I use:
    -He spoke loud/loudly.
    -Could you speak (louder/more loudly) please?

    Can we say that both are correct?
    Loud is an adverb in only the most relaxed rules of grammar. That is to say, it is incorrect on your exam papers. Loudly is the traditional and preferred adverb.

    Louder/loudest and more loudly/most loudly are equivalent and may be used interchangeably without fear.

    You may find the word loud looking like an adverb in a sentence such as this, The sound grew loud. In this sentence, however, the verb grew is considered to be a copula, similar to became, and loud remains an adjective. (Contrast this with the true adverb, loudly. You would never say, The sound grew loudly.)

    I hope this helps.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by danmahaffey
    Loud is an adverb in only the most relaxed rules of grammar. That is to say, it is incorrect on your exam papers. Loudly is the traditional and preferred adverb.

    Louder/loudest and more loudly/most loudly are equivalent and may be used interchangeably without fear.
    Hi Dan,

    I need some help with this question too.
    Is the usage of loud as an adverb really incorrect in exams? My grammar book (English Grammar in Use, Cambridge Uni.Press) tells me I may use it and the only difference is that loudly is more formal.

    And what I don't really understand: if you consider loud (=adverb) incorrect in 'nice English' how is it possible that I could use louder besides more loudly (again as adverbs)??? I thought that rule was more and most with adverbs ending in -ly.

    I'm beginning to feel confused (and miserable)....

    Ridley

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridal
    Hi Dan,

    I need some help with this question too.
    Is the usage of loud as an adverb really incorrect in exams? My grammar book (English Grammar in Use, Cambridge Uni.Press) tells me I may use it and the only difference is that loudly is more formal.

    And what I don't really understand: if you consider loud (=adverb) incorrect in 'nice English' how is it possible that I could use louder besides more loudly (again as adverbs)??? I thought that rule was more and most with adverbs ending in -ly.

    I'm beginning to feel confused (and miserable)....

    Ridley
    Ridley, I re-read my answer, and I think it stands as good advice.

    First, let's make sure you know that louder and loudest are good degrees of loudly, just as slower and slowest are used for slowly. And there are many more adverbs for which the comparative and superlative match the forms of the corresponding adjective.

    Second, we give this advice all the time here. What is acceptable to one authority may not be received well by another. An exam is not the place to try novel or rebellious uses. Tradition and conservatism rule the day on exams. A good grade, a smiling face, and an old-fashioned grammar rule are a better combination than a poor grade, a pout, and a risky grammar usage. Save the innovation and challenges for your friends, and this forum, of course. We love argument.

    Third, in the world according to Dan, the more comprehensive the reference work, the more likely it will admit unorthodox, recherche, and incorrect uses in order to be comprehensive. This does not necessarily give legitimacy, value or correctness to such an appearance. (Just because it got into the book doesn't mean it's OK.)

    Finally, don't be miserable. I know you're not that fragile.

    P.S.-Try using a really good English language dictionary for grammar help. My favorite is The American Heritage Dictionary. Not only are the definitions comprehensive, but the parts of speech each word can occupy are clearly delineated and defined separately, and the authors follow up with extensive usage notes where needed. This way, the odd or difficult uses are explained. The usage notes are cross-referenced whenever several words share a set of usage problems (such as each and every).

    You don't have to buy the book--it's expensive. Look for it here: http://www.bartleby.com/61. And for a full list of the usage notes indexed in one place, look here: http://www.bartleby.com/61/note4index.html.

    Good luck.
    Dan.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by danmahaffey
    First, let's make sure you know that louder and loudest are good degrees of loudly, just as slower and slowest are used for slowly. And there are many more adverbs for which the comparative and superlative match the forms of the corresponding adjective.

    An exam is not the place to try novel or rebellious uses. Tradition and conservatism rule the day on exams.

    Finally, don't be miserable. I know you're not that fragile.

    P.S.-Try using a really good English language dictionary for grammar help. My favorite is The American Heritage Dictionary.
    Dear Dan,

    thank you so much for your kind help.
    If I want to be 100% honest, I must admit that I still don't understand (is the order correct with still?) WHY it's possible to build the degree adjectives louder and loudest to loudly. In this case, can we regard loudly as an adjective??

    What you told me about exams and experimenting, I can say that I'm agreed :-)
    But for me it's very difficult to know correct grammar from unnatural or even incorrect one, mostly because of American English.

    Thanks for putting so much faith in me, Dan!

    As for the dictionary, it's superb! I tried it yesterday and was completely satisfied! :-)

    Ridley

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridal
    Dear Dan,

    thank you so much for your kind help.
    If I want to be 100% honest, I must admit that I still don't understand (is the order correct with still?) WHY it's possible to build the degree adjectives louder and loudest to loudly. In this case, can we regard loudly as an adjective??

    What you told me about exams and experimenting, I can say that I'm agreed :-)
    But for me it's very difficult to know correct grammar from unnatural or even incorrect one, mostly because of American English.

    Thanks for putting so much faith in me, Dan!

    As for the dictionary, it's superb! I tried it yesterday and was completely satisfied! :-)

    Ridley
    Here are some adverbs that are often used with or without -ly. We have a long tradition of using the form without -ly in speaking and writing. Go slow! There's some ice in the road.

    I prefer the use of these adverbs with -ly on exams for reasons I've discussed. In my judgment, louder / more loudly and loudest / most loudly are interchangeable.
    loud / loudly ..... louder or more loudly ..... loudest or most loudly
    quick / quickly ..... quicker or more quickly ..... etc.
    slow / slowly
    Badly is an adverb that surprises because it goes from badly to worse. The form is badly, worse, worst. To feel bad is to not feel well, but here bad is an adjective. To feel badly is to be unable to feel successfully, perhaps because your fingers are broken and bandaged. Many people say, I feel badly about that, thinking they are using really good grammar. This is a hypercorrect error. The actual correct form is, I feel bad about that.

    High as an adverb differs from highly in an important way. High means way up, often when it modifies a verb, such as in, the boy flew the kite very high or the eagle was perched high overhead. Highly means very, often when it modifies an adjective, such as in his behavior was highly irregular, or the car was highly customized. Here higher and highest fit high; more highly and most highly fit highly.

    As you get to know your dictionary, it will become an inseparable, trusted companion and friend, one you can depend on every day.

    Good luck.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by danmahaffey
    Here are some adverbs that are often used with or without -ly. We have a long tradition of using the form without -ly in speaking and writing. Go slow! There's some ice in the road.


    I prefer the use of these adverbs with -ly on exams for reasons I've discussed. In my judgment, louder / more loudly and loudest / most loudly are interchangeable.
    loud / loudly ..... louder or more loudly ..... loudest or most loudly
    quick / quickly ..... quicker or more quickly ..... etc.
    slow / slowly
    Badly is an adverb that surprises because it goes from badly to worse. The form is badly, worse, worst. To feel bad is to not feel well, but here bad is an adjective. To feel badly is to be unable to feel successfully, perhaps because your fingers are broken and bandaged. Many people say, I feel badly about that, thinking they are using really good grammar. This is a hypercorrect error. The actual correct form is, I feel bad about that.

    High as an adverb differs from highly in an important way. High means way up, often when it modifies a verb, such as in, the boy flew the kite very high or the eagle was perched high overhead. Highly means very, often when it modifies an adjective, such as in his behavior was highly irregular, or the car was highly customized. Here higher and highest fit high; more highly and most highly fit highly.

    As you get to know your dictionary, it will become an inseparable, trusted companion and friend, one you can depend on every day.

    Good luck.
    It's much clearer now. To sum it up, there are a couple of adjectives which have to forms but it's preferrable to use the -ly form because it's nice English and maybe more formal, too.
    I'll also try to use the nicer form!

    How interesting! I mean that these differences are really subtle, aren't they?
    I've already heard ' think highly of someone' or 'speak highly of smo.' That is, when you have a high opinion of somebody. That would be a third usage, wouldn't it?

    Reading your examples was HIGHLY ENJOYABLE! I just love your answers. You may have the impression that I'm a bit slow on the uptake with some grammar questions but I hope you don't mind my asking.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridal
    It's much clearer now. To sum it up, there are a couple of adjectives which have to forms but it's preferrable to use the -ly form because it's nice English and maybe more formal, too.
    I'll also try to use the nicer form!

    How interesting! I mean that these differences are really subtle, aren't they?
    I've already heard ' think highly of someone' or 'speak highly of smo.' That is, when you have a high opinion of somebody. That would be a third usage, wouldn't it?

    Reading your examples was HIGHLY ENJOYABLE! I just love your answers. You may have the impression that I'm a bit slow on the uptake with some grammar questions but I hope you don't mind my asking.
    Yes, highly means lofty as well as very (which means lofty in a way). When you look into the American Heritage Dictionary, you will find that it has a solid collection of Indo-European roots and gives the root of almost all English words. You will find whether the word comes from Anglo-Saxon, Farsi, Sanskrit, Latin or Greek. There are also Semitic roots so that words can be traced back into Arabic and Hebrew. The point of all this is that once the root is learned, one can sense, almost feel, how a word grew to take on the meaning(s) it has today.

    I don't mind your asking if you don't mind my answering. I say that as a practitioner, rather than a grammarian or linguist. You are likely to get answers that have been hammered into shape by use rather than answers that have been polished for display.

    Keep the faith.
    Dan.

  9. #9
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    Hello everyone,

    Here's a tip which some of you may want to try:

    Google can be used to search for words or phrases.
    Although this method is far from scientific, Google search results will give you a very reliable indication of current usage trends. Many students find this type of information helpful in determining which of two or more possible choices is preferred by native speakers.

    For example, a search for "speak louder" returns 1,720,000 results while a search for "speak more loudly" returns only 29,500 results. It's quite clear that native English speakers prefer "speak louder".

    Be sure to
    enclose a phrase in quotation marks. This will limit the search to the exact word order of the phrase.

    ~ ~ ~ Harmony

  10. #10

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    Dear Dan,

    I'll keep your words in mind!

    Dear Harmony,

    thanks for the tip you gave us. I've already tried using google search a hundred times and it really helps when I'm not sure which alternative to use or when I want to know whether a word or phrase exists or not.

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